Marc (speaking to Walt):
I agree with you regarding the Saudi relations problem affecting the entire U.S. government, both parties, and for many years now. I also agree that it is very much an over-simplification to talk about Prince Bandar being cozy with Bush (although it should be noted that an invitation to Crawford Ranch is given only to the world's most important guests - a prime perk). But these problems are not going to be addressed unless someone takes the political initiative, unless someone puts the Administration (of whatever party it happens to be at the time) in a very tight, uncomfortable corner, and that's where a very articulate party hack comes in handy. Michael Moore might be intellectually dishonest (I was impressed with the mental cartoon he rendered of the Lockheed Martin facility just outside Littleton, CO, where I was once employed), much as Rush Limbaugh has been similarly dishonest on different issues, but the arguments of both hacks charm through their simplicity and directness. It's a useful skill, leaving enough out of an argument to make it direct and easily digested. After "Bowling for Columbine", no one can look at Charlton Heston quite the same way again. Bye Moses, hello heartless creep.....Walt:It's Moore's primo chance. I hope he doesn't blow it with narcissistic blarney.
Which reminds me - The Atlantic magazine just arrived, with the cover story: The Fall of the House of Saud, by Robert Baer. Looks like an interesting article!
Walt:After sending this, I thought about it some more:
Michael Moore is basically a very articulate party hack, in the same way that Vladimir Posner was in the 1980s, or that Rush Limbaugh is today. However, the question of how should the US deal with the Saudis is an important one, which does need to be addressed, very soon.
Marc:I think your assessment of the Saudis is right on target. They are truly playing both sides, and I am sure that many Saudi individuals who make pleasant conversation with Americans at dinner parties support militant Islam quietly at the same time. However, this problem with the Saudis is a problem that the ENTIRE US Government is failing to face, together with previous US administrations, and governments of our allies. I suspect that our presidents, senators, congressmen, and their advisers don't really know what to do about it, because, after all, the Saudis are selling us oil, and cooperating in some of our endeavors against other problematic Arabs. They're even cooperating with us now. The OPEC embargoes of the 70s are not being repeated, even though we are conquering an Arab country!
To reduce this very difficult problem to the level of "Bush is cozy with the Saudi ambassador -- he invited him to his ranch" or even "Bush is soft on Saudi because he owns stock in Saudi companies" is an unworthy oversimplification; exactly what I would expect from Michael Moore. If Moore's thesis was even halfway true, then Bush's policy toward Saudi Arabia would be in stark contrast from the position of the Democratic Party, it would be different from what most of the Republican party would advise, it would be different from Clinton's and Gore's approaches, as well as the policies of the other coalition members. But what I actually sense is that everyone in both parties of the US government, Canadian government, British government, etc, all our ex-presidents, presidential hopefuls, etc, as well as President Bush, are uncertain of what to do about it.
Michael Moore is intelligent and entertaining, but he is intellectually dishonest. His work reduces complex problems to "Vote Democratic" bumper stickers. If Al Gore were President today, would US policy towards Saudi Arabia be different? I think not. Would Michael Moore make a documentary criticizing it? I think not.
Walt:As evil as the Iraqi regime is, it is probably only the second or third most dangerous threat to the USA at present. Al Qaeda is first on my list, not just because of its ruthlessness and skill, but because it gets plenty of support from official circles in Saudi Arabia. For example, the New Republic has been reporting for several years now the consequences of an apparent deal between Al Qaeda and the Saudi government in the mid 90's - no attacks by Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia that target Saudis, in exchange for surreptitious material support for Al Qaeda's foreign adventures. Two of the Sept. 11th hijackers took refuge at a safe house in San Diego, operated at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars a year, using "charity" money provided by the sister of the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., Prince Bandar bin Sultan. Thus, money funneled directly from Saudi government circles was used to help destroy the World Trade Center. It would be extremely naive to believe that officials in Saudi Arabia didn't know exactly what they were doing with their charitable contributions.
Prince Bandar bin Sultan has been the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. for 20+ years, and is arguably one of the most powerful people in the world. His influence is everywhere - I'm extremely interested in his recent important role in getting Richard Perle - one of the most influential people in the U.S. - removed as chairman of the Defense Advisory Council. Using carefully calculated innuendo, he can easily deflect the growing impatience within the U.S. government with Saudi policies.
President Bush is very cozy with Bandar bin Sultan - the Saudi ambassador is probably the only person in the diplomatic corp assigned to the U.S. ever invited as a guest to Bush's Crawford Ranch. Bush has invited only about three heads of state to the ranch (Mexico, China, Russia) - I don't think Bush ever bothered inviting Tony Blair to the ranch. The Prince clearly is more important than even Blair!
The bin Laden family is quite important in Saudi Arabia, and the clan is so large that it would be hard to believe that many in the clan knew much about Al Qaeda, yet some family members probably did have useful information, and it is suspicious that those family members in the U.S. on Sept. 11th were spirited out of the country before the FBI could interview them.
No, the basic problem with Bush/Saudi connections seems to be that the Administration is helping shield our direct enemies from our wrath. Out of ignorance or naivete, Bush, Cheney, et al. feel they have great influence with the Saudis, even feeling friendship towards them, but the Saudis are playing a double game, and they are definitely NOT our friends in any meaningful way. Not precisely our enemies, since the pact with Al Qaeda will be dispensed with by the terrorists at the most convenient time, opening the Saudi monarchy to attack, but definitely not our friends. I heard of some recent public opinion poll from Saudi Arabia stating that 90+% of the people there strongly oppose our venture into Iraq: even the monarchs can't ignore such a lop-sided margin. The monarchs likely feel they must surreptitiously attack the U.S., as dangerous as that is, just in order to maintain their own power base in a youthful (average age in the population is about 20), idle (high unemployment rate), incensed (particularly by the Israeli/Palestinian conflict), increasingly radicalized society.
How will all this get the full public expose it deserves? Well, after the success of "Bowling for Columbine", Michael Moore is fishing around for something to do, and his acid attack may be just what is needed. Bush/Saudi connections are Bush's greatest weakness - a great political opportunity for any Bush opponent. Moore may blow his chance - he's a bit of blowhard after all - but all I can say is that I envy Moore's opportunity!
I guess its no secret that the US Government and Bin Laden had a common enemy in the USSR during its invasion of Afghanistan, and therefore we helped him fight the Soviets. Its also no secret that Bin Laden comes from a family which runs a large legitimate business connected with the oil industry. Although I have not heard the details of that company's ties with US business interests, it wouldn't surprise me if some US oil interests did business with that company. And since it is common knowledge that the Bush family has been in the oil business for 50 years, I guess its possible that Bush senior is/was involved with a US company that is/was involved Bin Laden's father's company.
What I'm not clear on is what all this means to Michael Moore, and why I should be outraged by it. Does Michael Moore think that Osama Bin Laden is not really a terrorist, but rather a legitimate businessman? Or does Michael Moore think that Bush Jr. secretly supports Osama Bin Laden? Is Michael Moore advising us to leave Bin Laden alone? Does Bush think that by bombing Bin Laden, he can get in good with Bin Laden's family? Was the WTC bombing a Bush/Bin Laden plot to make money for George W. Bush??
Actually, I think the Trilateral Commision and the Masons were behind the whole thing.
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